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August 17[edit]

Lupton family[edit]

Ref number 106 has been altered (vandalised?) by another editor and is now an incorrect quote. I mucked up trying to revert this person's edit. The line in the text and the quote in the ref are now all wrong - with an accent in the line. Also, this editor needs to understand that a person's FULL TITLE should be used initially - and then their surname only. Please advise the editor called "esmgee". Thanks for your help with ref 106. Srbernadette (talk) 01:24, 17 August 2017 (UTC)

The edits to the quotation in that reference were made by you. The words in the quote before your edit were direct quotes from the reference document, whereas the wording you added was not in the reference document. You must NOT include as a "quote" wording which is not in the document being used as a reference. I have therefore reverted your changes.
You have used the word "vandalised" in regard to the edits by User:Esemgee. You need to read, very carefully, Wikipedia's definition at WP:Vandalism. Esemgeee is making good-faith efforts to improve the article, and in no way can that be regarded as vandalism. If your own edits continue to be dispruptive they are liable to be reverted. --David Biddulph (talk) 01:43, 17 August 2017 (UTC)
My main concern RE vandalism was when editor "Esmgee" removed - without a decent explanation - a photo of Catherine, Duchess of Cambridge from the Olive Middleton section on this page. The records show that editor KeithD replaced the photo. We both were certain that Catherine's descent from Olive Middleton (she is Olive's great granddaughter) was significant and relevant to this section of the article. The photo remains today - but there are concerns that at any given moment the editor Esemgee will remove it again, citing the reason as "namedropping" et al. I have often chosen to give the correct title of a member of the nobility when the person is first referenced - subsequently only using their surname. Esemgee consistently states that they consider this "namedropping", only using their christian and surnames throughout the article. Any suggestions to guide us? Thanks for your continued help and we will keep working together. Srbernadette (talk) 04:45, 17 August 2017 (UTC)

Copyright License[edit]

Hello, I have signed copyright license document from the creator that I would like to use for an article. Where do I file it or upload it? What's the process... — Preceding unsigned comment added by EarlMcAlpine (talkcontribs) 01:32, 17 August 2017 (UTC)

Hello, EarlMcAlpine. The instructions that the copyright holder needs to follow are at donating copyright materials. What kind of material are you intending to upload? If it is an image, that is fine; if you are talking about uploading text, it is rare that that is appropriate, as text created for other purposes is rarely sufficiently neutral to be used in a Wikipedia article, other than short cited quotes. --ColinFine (talk) 09:49, 17 August 2017 (UTC)

A question regarding use of titles of nobility[edit]

I have re-read this page -

If, for example, the text says that "Susan Smith married John Jones" and John Jones some time later became John Jones, 2nd Baron London (and has a Wikipedia page) shouldn't the text put John Jones, later 2nd Baron London with a link to the page?


Do we put that "Susan Smith married John Jones, 2nd Baron London".

I must add that EVERY TIME I put in a person's title, one editor will tell me I am "name dropping". Please advise.

We understand that after mentioning the full title in the first instance, the rest of the text only refers to the person with their surname.

Thanks Srbernadette (talk) 02:38, 17 August 2017 (UTC)

While (in my personal opinion), linking to 2nd Baron London seems appropriate (and no, you don't need to mention either the full title or give the link after the first instance of mentioning and linking the same), these discussions are best to be held on the talk page of any particular article you are referring to. Thanks. Lourdes 10:39, 17 August 2017 (UTC)


There used to be a button in my sandbox to request a review for article creation. I'm not done working on it, so I'm not ready for it to be reviewed yet, but I want the button to be there when I do need it. Ramesty (talk) 03:27, 17 August 2017 (UTC)

You removed it in this edit, which I have now reverted. --David Biddulph (talk) 03:36, 17 August 2017 (UTC)

Is it supposed to say resubmit though? Ramesty (talk) 03:52, 17 August 2017 (UTC)

It does. On the blue button in the bottom left-hand corner of the pink box at the top of the page. --David Biddulph (talk) 03:58, 17 August 2017 (UTC)


how to create Wikipedia page for our company? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fairwealth123 (talkcontribs) 12:48, 17 August 2017 (UTC)

@Fairwealth123: You don't. Wikipedia is not a place for advertising or promotion, we discourage users from writing about subjects they have a conflict of interest with, we discourage paid editing, and we do not allow users to share accounts. Ian.thomson (talk) 13:54, 17 August 2017 (UTC)

Security problem[edit]

Someone is repeatedly trying to reset the password to my account that isn't me. Is there any way that Wikipedia can investigate or block this behavior?

Driinternational (talk) 14:23, 17 August 2017 (UTC)

Help - in a discussion that is partly deleted[edit]

I have been trying to rescue the article at this talk page: Dong Sheng, it is unclear what is going on. There appear to be several editors with conflict of interest who are trying to create this article to match something they want. I am trying to rewrite it to fit in with Wikipedia style. however most of the article history is deleted and i have no idea what the original article said. could someone who can see deleted stuff take a look and advise? A Guy into Books (talk) 14:34, 17 August 2017 (UTC)

There are three URLs in the edit history. The editor that hid the text listed the URLs that it had been copied from. - X201 (talk) 14:48, 17 August 2017 (UTC)
(edit conflict) Much of the content of the article was removed (and redacted) for copyright reasons, leaving the article in an unsatisfactory state. This has been remarked on in the talk page, without prompting anyone except you to improve it. I see no evidence that anyone is "trying to create this article to match something they want". The deleted material was copied from and, which may be some help, though the latter does not look like a reliable source. Maproom (talk) 14:50, 17 August 2017 (UTC)

Getting an article published in Wikipedia[edit]

What is the process for submitting and getting approval for publication of a new article in Wikipedia? Are there criteria for approval? Is it a lengthy process?

Thanks, Steven Crozier Seattle, WA — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sleecrozier (talkcontribs) 15:30, 17 August 2017 (UTC)

See WP:42 (which explains why most articles are deleted) and WP:My first article. If an article is written correctly (which means more time spent before posting it), then there really isn't any sort of process beyond posting it. If it is not written correctly (not enough sources, or it has plagiarism or copyright violations, or it's written to promote something) then keeping the article is going to be a long and painful process.
When I write articles (such as Livre des Esperitz or Magical Treatise of Solomon), I:
  • gather all professionally published mainstream academic or journalistic sources that are specifically about the topic but not affiliated with it
  • summarize the relevant portions of those sources (sticking the citations behind those summaries) in Microsoft Notepad (with no formatting)
  • combine those summaries into a paraphrase (moving the citations throughout as necessary), again in Notepad
  • post that article as the first draft, and expand from there using other sources (such as ones that only discuss the topic in passing or are affiliated, though don't rely too much on affiliated sources)
It's more work, but when I follow through with that plan my articles do not get tagged for deletion.
Ian.thomson (talk) 15:44, 17 August 2017 (UTC)
There two processes. One is a process called New Page Patrol where reviewers make sure that articles do not meet the criteria for speedy deletion, or What Wikipedia is not. Articles are not indexed by search engines until the have been patrolled or they are 90 days old. Another process called Articles for Creation is available to unregistered editors or editors with a conflict of interest. Articles for creation are created in draft space, accepted upon a favourable review and moved into mainspace by an AfC reviewer. Mduvekot (talk) 16:30, 17 August 2017 (UTC)

Template error[edit]

Can someone help me with the {{ArticleHistory}} template on Us Tareyton smokers would rather fight than switch!? I'm trying to list it as a delisted GA in the template.

I have this code:

{{ArticleHistory |action1=GAN |action1date=21:32, 6 August 2006 |action1result=listed |action1oldid=68071734 |action1link=Talk:Us Tareyton smokers would rather fight than switch!/Archives/2012#GA nominee |action2=GAR |action2date=June 16, 2008 |action2link=Talk:Us Tareyton smokers would rather fight than switch!#GA Sweeps Review: Kept |action2result=Kept |action2oldid=219811132 |action3=GAR |action3date=July 25, 2017 |action3link=Talk:Us Tareyton smokers would rather fight than switch!/GA1 |action3result=Delisted |action3oldid=786650338 |dykdate=6 August 2006 |currentstatus=B |topic=Socsci }}

It's telling me "Lua error: bad argument #1 to 'params' (string or number expected, got nil)." and I can't for the life of me figure out which string is wrong. Ten Pound Hammer(What did I screw up now?) 16:58, 17 August 2017 (UTC)

That took some finding, it was the "B" in CurrentStatus - X201 (talk) 17:42, 17 August 2017 (UTC)
As for the reason why, see WikiProject assessments in the Errors section on the template Documentation. - X201 (talk) 17:44, 17 August 2017 (UTC)

mobile device language selector[edit]

I often read wikipedia articles in different languages. On the desktop there is a language selection box. Where is this on mobile view? — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 18:12, 17 August 2017 (UTC)

On the Android app, it's the middle icon on the bottom bar, looking like a Chinese 'wen' and an A. I assume it's something similar on IOS. --ColinFine (talk) 18:37, 17 August 2017 (UTC)
On the mobile website, it is a symbol of a small Chinese character and a capital "A" just under the article title to the left.  Seagull123  Φ  20:28, 17 August 2017 (UTC)

On the history of Louise Troy[edit]

I was reading about High Spirits, which was written by my landlord Timothy Gray. I read about Louise Troy & noticed that even though it was so it doesn't mention that she was Lauren Bacall's never seen understudy in Woman of the Year. I know as I worked it from the beginning to the end. She did do a rehearsal or 2 that I remember. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 18:18, 17 August 2017 (UTC)

Hello. I'm afraid that, because Wikipedia can be edited by anybody, we require that information be backed up by reliable published sources. If you can find a published source (maybe a biography?) that says she was the understudy, then it can go in the article; but I'm afraid that if it's only from your memory, then that can't be used in Wikipedia. --ColinFine (talk) 18:39, 17 August 2017 (UTC)

How to create a page[edit]

Hi- I am trying to figure out how to make a wikipedia page for my company. can you please send me the steps on how to do it!

Thanks, Ashley — Preceding unsigned comment added by Innercirclesports (talkcontribs) 19:25, 17 August 2017 (UTC)

@Innercirclesports. Hi, please first read conflict of interest (COI), and please note that you shouldn't really write an article for a company you work for. Wikipedia's policy on COIs says "Do not edit Wikipedia in your own interests or in the interests of your external relationships." Writing an article for Wikipedia is harder than many people realize. Even professional writers find that the format and style needed for a good encyclopedia article are different than what might be appropriate for other venues. You could:
  • Get someone else to do it—If your only goal is to make sure that an article is added to Wikipedia, you can request that someone write an article on the subject.
  • Start by editing other articles—If you are interested in becoming an editor at Wikipedia, our experience demonstrates that it is better to start by improving existing articles, which will help you get a sense of how this place works, and then you will be ready to write your first article from scratch. A good place to visit is the Wikipedia backlog, where there are literally hundreds of thousands of articles needing help from editors. Find an article in a subject area you know, and add a source, or a reference, or simply help write it better.
  • Go ahead and try—If you do decide to write an article immediately, please read our policy on conflicts of interest, then read our guide to writing your first article, which will repeat some of the good advice above. Then please use the Article wizard, which will help you through the steps. I urge you to accept the option to save your first draft in your user subpage, which will reduce the chance your work will be deleted before it is ready.

.  Seagull123  Φ  20:10, 17 August 2017 (UTC)

Put a footnote in notes section rather than references[edit]

I want to put a footnote in an article that has a notes section and a references section. The notes section is currently empty. If I use the ref tag, it puts it in the references section. How can I make it to to the notes section? Bubba73 You talkin' to me? 19:25, 17 August 2017 (UTC)

@Bubba73: See WP:REFB#Alternative systems. Eagleash (talk) 20:02, 17 August 2017 (UTC)
Also, Help:Footnotes#Footnotes:_groups might be helpful Mduvekot (talk) 20:07, 17 August 2017 (UTC)

Thanks, that got me there. Bubba73 You talkin' to me? 20:18, 17 August 2017 (UTC)



How do I get my band and their Biography in Wikipedia ? Can I make my own and add it or does someone else have to do it ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Johnnyshutup (talkcontribs) 20:48, 17 August 2017 (UTC)

@Johnnyshutup: Yes, basically you are strongly discouraged from creating any articles on a topic with which you have a close connection. (See WP:COI for more info). Wikipedia relies upon information gathered from independent reliable sources with no direct connection to the subject and has little, if any interest in what that subject may have to say about itself. If your band is 'notable' in the Wikipedia sense then undoubtedly someone will create an article about it in due course. Wikipedia is not a form of social media whereby persons or organisations can create a bio or profile about themselves.
If you feel that your band could pass the notability requirements (see WP:GNG and WP:NMUSIC), you could ask that an article be created at Wikipedia:Requested articles but you would have to be patient. Good luck. Eagleash (talk) 22:21, 17 August 2017 (UTC)
Johnnyshutup BTW - What is the name of your band? The above was "policy"; but not "inquiry". Care to share? Thanks! Maineartists (talk) 22:46, 17 August 2017 (UTC)

August 18[edit]

How can I find out[edit]

how many articles I have started? Suddenly I am curious. Einar aka Carptrash (talk) 00:10, 18 August 2017 (UTC)

At the bottom of your user contribution page [4] there is a link: [5] "Articles Created". Maineartists (talk) 00:20, 18 August 2017 (UTC)
Well "you learn something new every day, if you start out dumb enough." (moto of a friend of mine) Thanks, Carptrash (talk) 01:17, 18 August 2017 (UTC)
That's how I start every single day! Maineartists (talk) 01:39, 18 August 2017 (UTC)

Getting Headlines synchronized in different lanugages[edit]

Good morning,

Problem: -> DISPLAYTITLE: my entry / changes are not accepted

I'm struggeling with the DISPLAYTITLE argument: I need to change the DISPLAYTITLE, but my new entry is not accepted.

Furthermore, I need to harmonize the DISPLAYTITLE for an article in English and German language. (Background: the originator for both articles are not identical) How ccan I accopmplish this ?

Thank you very much.

Sincerely Chaffee One — Preceding unsigned comment added by Chaffee One (talkcontribs) 06:41, 18 August 2017 (UTC)

{{DISPLAYTITLE}} has only a limited number of functions, see Template:DISPLAYTITLE#Description. --David Biddulph (talk) 07:21, 18 August 2017 (UTC)
On the last point, Chaffee One, it is not necessarily the case that you "need to harmonize the DISPLAYTITLE for an article in English and German language". English Wikipedia has a policy on the titles of articles, as does German Wikipedia; but they are not necessarily the same (I haven't read the German one to see). Please study both. --ColinFine (talk) 11:10, 18 August 2017 (UTC)
Your attempted "Prof. Dr. habil. Dr. med. h.c. mult. Willi A. Kalender, Ph.D." is the worst violation of WP:TITLESINTITLES I have seen. We only give the actual name in the title. It might be changed from Willi Kalender to Willi A. Kalender if the latter form is more common in reliable sources. Titles are changed by moving the page. PrimeHunter (talk) 14:54, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

Re-edit and re-submit a deleted submission[edit]

Can anyone tell me how long it takes for a request to have a previously submitted (and subsequently deleted) article re-instated for editing?

I made my request yesterday but haven't heard anything since. Am I being impatient?

Thanks in advance.

Rob — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rob Bolton (talkcontribs) 10:00, 18 August 2017 (UTC)

Basil, the Helpdesk's telepathic cat, that helps us know which articles people are talking about, is on holiday at the moment, so if users of the Helpdesk don't tell us, we have to resort to guesses. Do you mean Draft:Jonno Davies? - X201 (talk) 10:18, 18 August 2017 (UTC)

Rob Bolton (talk) 10:50, 18 August 2017 (UTC) - You make a fair point X201. Yes, it is indeed Draft:Jonno Davies. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rob Bolton (talkcontribs) 10:28, 18 August 2017 (UTC)

  • Is Rob Bolton the brother of Chris Bolton whom both appear to be connected to Davco Media which is owned and operated by Ian Davies... who might just be the farther of Jonno Davies perhaps ? He has a son who is an actor as well – although grant you, it may be pure coincidence that he is call Jonno too [6]. @ Rob Bolton. Before going any further please read COI and delcare any COI's on both your talk page an any articles that you have COI relationships with. You are making it more difficult for us to help you and give the right foccused advice as Basil is often on holiday. Aspro (talk) 13:22, 18 August 2017 (UTC)

I've no idea who Chris Bolton is but yes, I am an associate of Davcomedia. However, why would this stop the creation of an entry for Jonno Davies in Wikipedia? Previous submissions have been rejected based on him not being 'notable' enough. With hindsight, those submissions have lacked substance. Since the last one, Jonno Davies' profile has increased significantly. He is about to lead a theatre production of A Clockwork Orange in New York. A quick Google search will show he has had a lot of coverage in respected websites and publications in recent weeks, including Playbill and Broadway World, and he has done several interviews for print media to be published in September. I would have thought this increase in notability with suitable citations would warrant an inclusion in Wikipedia or am I wrong? Rob Bolton (talk) 15:31, 18 August 2017 (UTC)

It doesn't affect his notability, Rob Bolton, but it may affect whether or not you are a suitable person to be writing an article about him. Please see the links that Aspro gave you. --ColinFine (talk) 18:43, 18 August 2017 (UTC)

Thank you for your comment ColinFine. If I am deemed to have a conflict of interest, what is the way forward with this? Do I approach someone else to write a new submission or is an entry for Jonno Davies now a non-starter? Thanks in advance. Rob Bolton (talk) 20:59, 18 August 2017 (UTC)

@Rob Bolton Thanks for the quick reply. Now to come back to answer the question as to how long will it take. In reality, it is a bit like asking how long is a piece of string. However, since the current draft appears to show notability enough now, I would be willing to move it to main-space if another editors agree. Will also update your talk page for you, to clarify your COI and save you the trouble. Finally... An image to accompany the article would enhance it. As his dad is a photographer, maybe he would like to upload one or two with the copyright license of CC BY SA 4.0 See Commons: Upload. Then place the Wikimedia Commons file name of the image onto to the articles talk page so that it can be added quickly. Important: if the image has already been published, this must be mentioned otherwise it may get flagged as a copyvio and get deleted. Of course, you can do all this for him... but be warned... That will require the submission of OTRS and the backlog for those approvals is currently about 160 days. So go with the flow and keep it simple. Do any editors object or agree to just moving this now to mainspace? Aspro (talk) 21:20, 18 August 2017 (UTC)

Thank you Aspro. Much appreciated. I'll await comments from other editors and respect whatever they have to say. Rob Bolton (talk) 21:53, 18 August 2017 (UTC)

There haven't been further comments from other editors Aspro, either for or against. Is it OK for you to put Draft:Jonno Davies back in mainspace now? Apologies if I'm asking in the wrong place. Thanks. Rob Bolton (talk) 18:43, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

FC Utrecht[edit]


I'm an employee of FC Utrecht B.V.

I like to change the logo of FC Utrecht on the English Wikipedia page to the official FC Utrecht logo. Accept it doesn't work and we as organization need this change for correct logo use.

Greetings, Bas van den Berg — Preceding unsigned comment added by FC Utrecht B.V. (talkcontribs) 10:52, 18 August 2017 (UTC)

@FC Utrecht B.V.: The official FC Utrecht logo was updated. XXN, 19:41, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

New details for Copper Dragon Brewery[edit]

Dear Sirs

I have noticed on your pages that Copper Dragon brewery is quoted as being owned by Greyhawk Brewery, this is incorrect. Copper Dragon has moved site and is owned by Steve Taylor. The new address is Unit 9 Lincoln Park, Salthill Industrial Estate, Clitheroe BB7 1QD the telephone number is 01200 613777 Thank you for your help — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 11:13, 18 August 2017 (UTC)

I've copied the above to Talk:Copper Dragon Brewery. Rojomoke (talk) 14:15, 18 August 2017 (UTC)

Handling spaces in a URL[edit]

Hi guys, sorry to trouble you. The article German World War II camouflage patterns has a note that cites

which is a working URL when pasted into a browser's address box. However, whether or not the %20 strings are converted into spaces, quoted or not, it doesn't work as a URL in a citation template. I'd be grateful if someone could tell me how to make it work as a link. Many thanks, Chiswick Chap (talk) 14:21, 18 August 2017 (UTC)

Would encoding the ~ as %7E fix it? - X201 (talk) 14:37, 18 August 2017 (UTC)
Many thanks to David Biddulph for fixing this, all we needed was to sort out a space. Bugs are always invisible to the bugged. Chiswick Chap (talk) 14:45, 18 August 2017 (UTC)

2017–18 United States Network Televison Schedule (late night)[edit]

Can you move the US Network TV late night article from The Talk page to the Draft article page please. 2600:8803:7A00:976A:7D54:8769:E6A:A070 (talk) 15:13, 18 August 2017 (UTC)

Why didn't you answer me a while ago GET YOUR LAZY BUTTS IN GEAR NOW. 2600:8803:7A00:976A:7D54:8769:E6A:A070 (talk) 21:24, 18 August 2017 (UTC)

Wikipedia is entirely run by volunteers, most of whom have jobs or lives outside Wikipedia (or both), and pretty much none of whom respond positively to being shouted it in ALL CAPS. None of us are pad to do this. Unless a post has been unanswered for at least 24 hours, more likely 48, it is not appropriate to complain about the lack of response. There is no deadline. It also helps if you provide a wiki-link to the page or pages you discuss here. DES (talk)DESiegel Contribs 22:21, 18 August 2017 (UTC)
And exactly what draft page do you want these talk pages moved to? DES (talk)DESiegel Contribs 22:33, 18 August 2017 (UTC)
And I'm guessing that you're the same person who keeps on creating material inappropriately on talk pages and demanding that somebody move it for them. Why don't you get your lazy butt in gear and learn how to do it properly? --ColinFine (talk) 00:28, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

Content deleted[edit]

Hi I'm enquiring about my edit that keeps being deleted if possible could it be kept up it's in honour of 1 of the victims of the Manchester bombing Saffie rose Roussos — Preceding unsigned comment added by Truth8491 (talkcontribs) 16:19, 18 August 2017 (UTC)

@Truth8491: See WP:NOTMEMORIAL. Your first edit was reverted because you added someone who there is no article about. Your next edit was reverted because you just blanked out the January section. There is no article on Saffie rose Roussos. Ian.thomson (talk) 16:24, 18 August 2017 (UTC)

Special:NewPages not highlighting[edit]

I sometimes use this old page to watch for newly created articles, and today it is not highlighting unreviewed articles as described at the top of the page. Any ideas? Home Lander (talk) 19:00, 18 August 2017 (UTC)

It's phab:T173556. PrimeHunter (talk) 19:57, 18 August 2017 (UTC)
Thanks PrimeHunter. Home Lander (talk) 20:03, 18 August 2017 (UTC)

Copyright Format[edit]

I am currently editing the page of someone who has recently written a book. Here is his page:

He has asked me to list the book for him, which I did, but he provided me with a number that he said came from the U.S. Copyright Office. He doesn't have an ISBN number, and he wants me to include this number, but I can't seem to find a parameter for a copyright number. Is there one? How should I list this? Here is what he thought it should look like:

Kohlhase, Charley (2016). The Complete Rocket Scientist; Instant Publishing Company; Txu000934567 dated 2/10/2000

I added this to his list of books, but I'm not sure how to add the reg. no. and date.

Let me know if this is possible or if I should ask him for some other information.


Mark — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ideaweb Studios (talkcontribs) 22:29, 18 August 2017 (UTC)

Hello, Ideaweb Studios. Unfortunately, it seems that Kholhase and you have a very common but erroneous understanding of Wikipedia. He and you have essentially no role in editing Wikipedia's article about him. You (both) should limit yourselves to suggesting changes on the article's talk page: please see conflict of interest for more information.
On the specific subject: if the book has been the subject of published writing by people who have no connection whatever with Kohlhase (such as reviews in prominent newspapers) then it may be appropriate for it to be mentioned in the article. If it hasn't, then it should probably not be mentioned. Information in an article does not come from the subject, but from independent reliably published sources. As for the registered number: if it will help people locate the book, it could be included. There may be a suitable argument in the template {{cite book}}.
One more point: you must change your user name (or abandon that one and create a new one). Usernames are not permitted to suggest that they represent any organisation. --ColinFine (talk) 00:35, 19 August 2017 (UTC)
@ Ideaweb Studios You might start off by asking the author if he has succeeded in selling any copies of this book so far? He may be a rocket scientist but he seems to be stuck at T-43 hours and counting; which is rocket scientist talk meaning that this book is not ready for launch. Putting it in plane English. To achieve T-0 (launch). First: load onboard what ColinFine has said, so as to update your biochemical database (most people have one residing between their two ears). Second: Would you agree that there is little point in writing a book unless the author intends it to be read. Therefore, the launch vehicle needs to have a navigation system capable of getting the payload (book) into an orbit where people can access it. For them to access it, the satellite (book) needs to transmit its whereabouts so that ground stations can home in and lock onto it (find the book - buy it). Satellites use radio beacons and books use ISBN's. This authors book is not required by law to have such a call sign (ISBN) but without such a call sign the book is not added to any Book Lists. Leaving the book to just aimlessly obit until some advanced extraterrestrial race comes across it or more likely re-enter publishing reality and burns up upon its decent. NASA gets billions of tax payers $ whilst we don't as we are all volunteers and you are paid -so you will have to do this yourself. Hope though, that I have encourage you to shoot for the moon. Signing off at T-42:30 hours due to a procedural error that requires the technician to RTFM's - which sparkle all over Wikipedia like a meteor storm on a clear moonless night. Until then, this book will be regarded as vanity press (as of policy) even if the author has enough university degrees to get his next job as a laboratory thermometer. So this is no criticism at all about the credibility of this author! Rather more about the failure of you to follow our guidelines if you want to contribute.Aspro (talk) 13:25, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

August 19[edit]

Heath Ledger[edit]

Hi wiki The actor's name is Heath Andrew Ledger not heathcliffe. Kind regards Allison Holland — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 00:43, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

His common name (acting name) may have been Heath Ledger, but his birth name was indeed Healthcliffe: [7]. WP tends to title articles based on common names for subjects most popularly known, but within the article (and infobox) will give the birthname - or actual name - of the subject. Thanks. Maineartists (talk) 01:25, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

Amy Beach's 150th birthday[edit]

Composer Amy Beach's 150th birthday is September 5. Is there any chance that she could be honored as a featured article on that day? Thanks you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Clarkesociety (talkcontribs) 03:25, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

The article Amy Beach is currently listed as start class, which means it has a long way to go. Practically speaking, it would be nearly impossible to get it into FA shape in just a couple of weeks. If you want it to be the Featured Article of the day, with a link from the main page, well, sorry but those decisions are made too far in advance. The 151st birthday doesn't have the same ring to it, I realize, but it's not too early to start working on the article for next year. In the meantime, you can suggest a link from the "On This Day" section of the main page on September 5; see Wikipedia:Selected anniversaries for how to do that. RivertorchFIREWATER 06:22, 19 August 2017 (UTC)
@Clarkesociety: In case it isn't clear, in order to become today's featured article on Main Page, an article must first get status as one of the Wikipedia:Featured articles which are considered to be the best articles Wikipedia has to offer. Wikipedia:Today's featured article/September 2017 hasn't been chosen yet but it would be hard to become a featured article in time. PrimeHunter (talk) 11:35, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

Bone Wars[edit]

My 5 year old son just clicked on the article on your main page about dinosaurs. He clicked on Bone Wars and was greeted with pornography. I assume this is a hacking incident and hope that you will change it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 03:27, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

The vandal was reverted 11 times, each within a minute or so, and had been blocked from editing by the time you posted your message. Thank you for pointing out the vandalism. --David Biddulph (talk) 03:32, 19 August 2017 (UTC)
The idea of semi-protecting Today's Featured Article is listed among the perennial proposals at the Village Pump. I can't think why. RivertorchFIREWATER 06:11, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

add a colon?[edit]

it says to add a colon, do i add it the beginging or the end? Ramesty (talk) 05:06, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

Ramesty, I'm guessing you're asking about colon usage in discussions. Placing a colon at the beginning of a line indents the paragraph that follows. Indentation is used when replying to someone else's post on a talk page (or on certain other pages, such as this one). For instance, I'm replying to you so I'm indenting. If you reply to me, you should indent further; you do that by placing two colons at the beginning of the line. RivertorchFIREWATER 06:09, 19 August 2017 (UTC)
Two colons, eh, well that's interesting. Thanks! Ramesty (talk) 06:11, 19 August 2017 (UTC)
@Ramesty: The general rule is one more colon than the post you reply to, so others can see what you replied to in discussions where some replies are not to the post immediately above it. I used one colon here so it looks like I'm only replying to your original post. I should have used three. See more at Help:Using talk pages#Indentation. I see you are doing The Wikipedia Adventure so I guess you saw a simplified instruction: "Indent replies with a colon : to move the text one notch to the right and show you're responding to a message." That's considered good enough for beginners who shouldn't be overloaded with information. PrimeHunter (talk) 11:23, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

Ireland's Waterfrod Co[edit]

The Waterford Company does not appear to be in Ireland anymore by Google website. The headquarters show a New Jersey. The Singer (Sue) woman I have heard tried to make it hers. There is a new owner but attorneys Tomas Daniel Kelly in England with co-partners Steve and John are supposed to be the attorneys on account. Could you please verify this and stop the hostile takeover. I can't get through to them. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 13:02, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

I suspect, based on your question, that you found one of our over 5.4 million articles and thought we were affiliated in some way with that subject. Please note that you are at Wikipedia, the free online encyclopedia that anyone can edit, and this page is for asking questions related to using or contributing to Wikipedia itself. Thus, we have no special knowledge about the subject of your question. You can, however, search our vast catalogue of articles by typing a subject into the search field on the upper right side of your screen. If you cannot find what you are looking for, we have a reference desk, divided into various subject areas, where asking knowledge questions is welcome. Best of luck. --Orange Mike | Talk 13:35, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

Just need an advise about translation English page into Russian[edit]

Hi! I have some dispute with participants from Russian Wiki . I decided to translate existing English wiki page into Russian in Russian Wiki. It was successful for a year but then unfortunately I found out that one of participant from Russian Wiki deleted the whole page in Russian and the reason was that personality is not important enough. My question - is it really legal according to Wiki rules to delete existed for a longperiod translated pages? Hope for answer. Thanks Яна Федорова (talk) 16:04, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

@Яна Федорова: It's fine. Even if the page was translated here and is good here, it might not be ok there, because there might be differing standards of notability (importance, basically) or the Wikipedians might have a different philosophy in terms of whether to delete a page or not. Hope that helps! RileyBugz会話投稿記録 18:44, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

Offensive term used in an article, obviously edited by people opposed to the person's political ideology.[edit]

I have deeply offended by a offensive term that is used in the article about H.Raja, an Indian politician. The article link is

Instead of H. Raja, the offensive word "Echa" is used. I request and expect Wikipedia to correct this criminal act as soon as possible. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 17:00, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

Then click the "edit" button and fix it. RileyBugz会話投稿記録 17:02, 19 August 2017 (UTC)
Welcome to Wikipedia! I know this is your very first contribution, and I'm sure you cannot take the helpful advice above; however, no edit summary reason was given, so I reverted for now: requesting a reliable source to back the edit. I'll keep an eye on the page for now. We'll see what happens; it may have just been a drive-by vandalism since it was an IP that seems to be vandalizing other pages similar to this one. They may need to be reported. Thanks! Maineartists (talk) 17:16, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

Where can I find data (statistics) about use of a template?[edit]

Hi, I was just minding my own business, editing stuff, you know, the same. Thanks to one editor, Template:Infobox software license is available to the wiki-pt project now, which I'm going to use. But I got curious out of nowhere: where is this Infobox already used? I know that GPL uses it; where else? I'm sure there is a list somewhere. It would be somewhat helpful for me I guess, since I could simply copyedit some information. Kind regards! User:Tetizeraz. Send me a ✉️ ! 19:40, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

What links here; left column of the template page.
Trappist the monk (talk) 19:47, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

My edits being constantly deleted.[edit]

I updated the The Exodus page, to include the earlier dates given by Josephus Flavius (a 1st century AD chronicler).

The update was deleted, because it was claimed that Josephus was a primary source. So I re-wrote the article to point out that Josephus was not a primary source (1,600 years displaced from the events, and he was analysing history rather than repeating it).

The update was deleted, because it was claimed that Josephus is not a reliable source, even though other Wiki pages continuously quote Josephus. I was told that I needed to quote a modern historian.

So I re-wrote the article and quoted one modern and one Victorian historian, who both discussed and supported the Exodus dates given by Josephus (and his links with the Hyksos Exodus). But the update was deleted again. Not modified or commented on, but simply deleted.

Sorry, but this looks like Wiki editors rewriting history to suit themselves. Josephus Flavius (Judaism"s greatest historian) claims that the Israelite Exodus was the Hyksos Exodus, but Wiki will not allow anyone to know that. Even though modern academia discusses and tentatively supports this assertion. So why will Wiki not allow this to be mentioned?

My update is given below.

Tatelyle (talk) 20:36, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

Extended content

Dating the Exodus[edit]

Attempts to date the Exodus to a specific century have been inconclusive.[1] William F. Albright, the leading biblical archaeologist of the mid-20th century, proposed a date of around 1250–1200 BCE, but his so-called "Israelite" evidence (house-type, the collar-rimmed jars, etc.) are continuations of Canaanite culture.[2] The lack of evidence has led scholars to conclude that it is difficult or even impossible to link the exodus story to any specific point in history.[3] Finkelstein and Silberman also place the Exodus in the 13th century BC and debate the accuracy of the biblical account. They state that Jericho was unwalled and does not show destruction layers consistent with the Bible's account (e.g., Jericho was "small and poor, almost insignificant, and unfortified (and) there was also no sign of a destruction".) [4] Finkelstein and Silberman's assessment is based upon a 13th century chronology for the Exodus, and would not necessarily apply if the Exodus took place at an earlier date. It is universally accepted that Jericho was a substantial fortified city before its destruction in the 16th century BC.[5] [6]

Although controversial, earlier dates for the Exodus are assumed in several ancient texts and modern analyses. The biblical Book of 1 Kings 6:1 places the Exodus 480 years before the construction of Solomon's Temple, and based upon the accepted date for King Solomon's reign this places the Exodus in c. 1446 BCE. However it is widely claimed that the time period in 1 Kings merely represents twelve generations of forty years each.[7][8][9] In a similar fashion Professors R. A. Freund and E. W. Hengstenberg concur with Flavius Josephus, who says that the Israelite Exodus was the Hyksos Exodus, which would again place the Israelite Exodus in an earlier era. [10] [11] Prof Freund quotes Josephus when he says:

It is evident ... that these shepherds as they are here called (the Hyksos Shepherd Kings), who were no other than our forefathers, were delivered out of Egypt, and came thence and inhabited this country. [12] [13]

Possible sources and parallels[edit]

Ipuwer Papyrus

Manetho and the Hyksos[edit]

The Greek author Hecataeus of Abdera (c. 320 BCE) wrote a history of Egypt in which he told how the Egyptians blamed a plague on foreigners and expelled them from the country, whereupon Moses, their leader, took them to Canaan.[14] A similar and more famous story is told by the Egyptian historian Manetho (3rd century BCE), chief priest at the Temple of Ra in Heliopolis, which is preserved in two quotations by the 1st century CE Jewish historian Josephus.[15] In the first volume of Manetho's History of Egypt, as retold by Josephus, Manetho describes the Hyksos, their lowly origins in Asia, their invasion and dominion over Egypt, their eventual expulsion, and their subsequent exile to Judaea and their establishing the city of Jerusalem and its temple. In the second volume Manetho defined the Hyksos as being the Hyksos or "Shepherd Kings" or "Captive Shepherds" who invaded Egypt, destroying its cities and temples and making war with the Egyptian people to "gradually destroy them to the very roots". Following a war with the Egyptians a treaty was negotiated stipulating that these Hyksos Shepherds were to exit Egypt. It is Josephus who identifies the Hyksos with the Jews, not Manetho.[16] Professor Freund quotes Josephus when he says:

[The Hyksos] kept possession of Egypt five hundred and eleven years. After this ... the shepherds were subdued and were driven out of other parts of Egypt, but were shut up in a place named Avaris ... Despairing of taking the place by siege [Thummosis] came to an agreement with them: that they should leave Egypt ... After this agreement was made, they went away with their whole families and effects, not fewer in number than two hundred and forty thousand; and took their journey from Egypt, through the wilderness, for Syria. ... where they built a city in ... Judea ... and called it Jerusalem. In another book Manetho says, “That this nation thus called shepherds, were also called captives in their sacred books.” And this account of his is the truth. For feeding of sheep was the employment of our forefathers ... and as they led a wandering life in feeding sheep they were called shepherds. Nor was it without reason that they were called captives by the Egyptians, since one of our ancestors, Joseph, told the King of Egypt that he was a captive. [17] [18]

Both Freund and Hengstenberg agree with Josephus' analysis of the accounts by Manetho, which equate the Hyksos people and Exodus with the Israelite people and Exodus. Freund says: "It is clear from this account that neither Josephus nor Manetho connects the Exodus with Pharaoh Rameses." Freund also notes that the biblical Ramesses, which has been identified with Pi-Ramesses in the Nile Delta by many Egyptologists,[19] was located on the same site as Avaris, leading him to add:

[Avaris] was probably the ancient city of Rameses mentioned in the Book of Exodus (1:11) ... If so, the Book of Exodus preserves an accurate and historically verifiable fact: that the 16th century BC Exodus began from Avaris, which was indeed at a later time a city of Ramesses. [20]

In conclusion Hengstenberg claims that the Egyptians adopted the Israelite Exodus story to construct their own history of the Hyksos; while Freund believes that the biblical redactors took the history of the Hyksos and blended it with other events to create the account of the Israelite Exodus. Manetho's second account of an exodus relates how 80,000 lepers and other "impure people", led by a priest named Osarseph, join forces with the former Hyksos, now living in Jerusalem, to take over Egypt. They wreak havoc until eventually the pharaoh and his son chase them out to the borders of Syria, where Osarseph gives the lepers a law-code and changes his name to Moses, although the identification of Osarseph with Moses in the second account may be a later addition.[21][22] Josephus strongly disassociates the Israelites from this second account. [23]

Historians agree that the stories told by Hecataeus and Manetho are clearly related in some manner to the biblical account of the Exodus. However, it is impossible to tell whether these accounts bear witness to actual historical events or whether they are a polemical response to the Exodus story, or indeed whether the Exodus story is a response to the Egyptian accounts.[24] [25] [26]


  1. ^ Killebrew 2005, p. 151.
  2. ^ Killebrew 2005, pp. 175–77.
  3. ^ Killebrew 2005, p. 152.
  4. ^ Finkelstein & Silberman 2002, pp. 77–79, 82.
  5. ^ Kuijt 2012, p. 167.
  6. ^ Kenyon, Kathleen "Digging up Jericho"(London, 1957)
  7. ^ Shea 2003, pp. 238–39.
  8. ^ Moore & Kelle 2005, p. 81.
  9. ^ Thompson 1999, p. 74.
  10. ^ Freund, Richard "Digging Through the Bible" p83 (Maryland USA, 2008)
  11. ^ Hengstenberg, Ernst "Egypt and the Books of Moses: Manetho and the Hyksos" (Berlin, 1841)
  12. ^ Freund, Richard "Digging Through the Bible" p83 (Maryland USA, 2008)
  13. ^ Against Apion 1:16 [1]
  14. ^ Assmann 2009, p. 34.
  15. ^ "Berossos and Manetho" Introduced and translated by Gerald P. Verbrugghe and John M. Wickersham, University of Michigan Press, 1996
  16. ^ Droge 1996, pp. 121–22.
  17. ^ Freund, Richard "Digging Through the Bible" p83 (Maryland USA, 2008)
  18. ^ Against Apion 1:14 [2]
  19. ^ Hoffmeister, James "Israel in Egypt: The Evidence for the Authenticity of the Exodus Tradition" p83 (OUP, 1999)
  20. ^ Freund, Richard "Digging Through the Bible" p84 (Maryland USA, 2008)
  21. ^ Droge 1996, pp. 134–35.
  22. ^ Feldman 1998, p. 342.
  23. ^ Against Apion 1:26 [3]
  24. ^ Gmirkin 2006, p. 170.
  25. ^ Freund, Richard "Digging Through the Bible" (Maryland USA, 2008)
  26. ^ Hengstenberg, Ernst "Egypt and the Books of Moses: Manetho and the Hyksos" (Berlin, 1841)
Tatelyle: your edits might have been treated with more respect if they had been made from your registered account, instead of from an IP address. (Things shouldn't be that way, but they sometimes are.) Maproom (talk) 21:19, 19 August 2017 (UTC)
In any case, Tatelyle the help desk is not the place to post extensive excerpts from articles, nor the place to seek consensus for such changes. You ahve debated this at soem length on Talk:The Exodus, and found that the consensus is against you. You can post at the WP:RSN asking for an opinion on the reliability of Josephus as a source in this connection. You can try dispute resolution, probably an RFC. (Don't try both at once.) But you may not be able to et this content introduced over the objections of other editors that it conflicts with the views of modern sources. DES (talk)DESiegel Contribs 21:28, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

Eminem on list of all time album sales[edit]

this list is wrong List of best-selling albums Eminem has 3 albums on this list... it is out of date Eminem discography Albert368 14:51 19th August, 2017 —Preceding undated comment added 21:44, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Content on Wikipedia is almost| always out-of-date, Albert368, becausew we wait for the sources, and then for a volunteer to make the edits. You can make the update yourself, or post to Talk:List of best-selling albums. In either case, please cite a reliable source. Note that other Wikipedia articles are not reliable sources, although sources cited in them should be. DES (talk)DESiegel Contribs 21:53, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

I tried editing but it is auto confirmed editing and I am not it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Albert368 (talkcontribs) 21:48, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

Then post on the talk page and ask for some autoconfirmed editor to make the change. Be sure to provide a source. However, you appear to be autoconfirmed. DES (talk)DESiegel Contribs 21:57, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

Wikipedia has my photo with the wrong person[edit]

How do I remove ???? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:306:33CA:4F00:A125:6182:EC18:B6D2 (talk) 23:15, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

What do you mean "has my photo with the wrong person"? Do you mean that the person in the photo isn't you? Could you please specify? RileyBugz会話投稿記録 23:17, 19 August 2017 (UTC)
What article or page are you talking about, and exactly what is the problem, please? We can't fix it if you don't give us the details. DES (talk)DESiegel Contribs 7:23 pm, Today (UTC−4)
And please don't create multiple sections for the same issue. It doesn't help. DES (talk)DESiegel Contribs 23:25, 19 August 2017 (UTC)
Is the photo in a box on a search results page at an external search engine like Google, Yahoo or Bing? They often display photos which are not taken from a Wikipedia article they quote and link to near the photo. See Template:HD/GKG for Google. PrimeHunter (talk) 23:33, 19 August 2017 (UTC)
Yes, what PrimeHunter mentions often happens. IP Editor with ID ending in B6D2, I want to be clear. It was and is fine that you posted here with a question. I and others posting responses only want to get more information so that we can help with your issue, and to let you know about the conventions of posting here, so that you can communicate with us more effectively. DES (talk)DESiegel Contribs 00:01, 20 August 2017 (UTC)

August 20[edit]

Porn image detected in todays page[edit]

Dear Page creator porn image detected in todays article pls rectify — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 03:44, 20 August 2017 (UTC)

It has already been removed and the IP that was adding it has been blocked. Sometimes this stuff gets rev/deleted but that is up to any admins that looks at the edits in question. MarnetteD|Talk 03:57, 20 August 2017 (UTC)